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in modern times, for the overwhelming majority of combat situations you aren't shooting past 400 yards. in pretty much everything except going against non-personnel targets (vehicles, barriers, etc.) and medium-long range suppressive fire, full auto (and even burst fire) is a pointless waste of ammo. at 100 yards any true carbine or rifle caliber will kill you. with a pistol caliber it'll hurt you and piss you off, but it won't do much more damage than a .22lr at 50 yards. the place where the SMG once occupied was in the role of a precision shooting CQB weapon, something lightweight and compact where you could rapidly and accurately pick your target. 'twas especially useful in hostage situations or when going up close and personal against adversaries wearing body armor (aim for gut, groin, thigh, armpit, neck and face). with a handgun in a standard configuration, this is possible but not always practical, mainly because of the fact that you only have two points of contact. they had exactly the right idea in WW1. people are starting to wake up to this. handgun chassis kits and stocks/braces are what has effectively killed the SMG once and for all. the intermediate carbine did quite a number to the SMG's usefulness, but the handgun stocks, braces, and chassis kits are the deathblow, the final nail in the coffin. they're lighter, more compact, less expensive, less complex, and just as accurate as SMGs as is sufficient for the situation they're best employed. some of them can even be holstered and effectively concealed. the two best bang for your buck options, however, come from jew-owned companies. recover tactical (20/20 series) is owned by the jew tamir porat, who was a member of the design team for the tavor series of bullpups, caa (mck 2) by the jew mikey hartman, an idf veteran who was the host of discovery channel's future weapons series. the other options are much more expensive (although not as much as most smgs) and some of them are well worth it, like b&t's usw and (specifically) the flux raider, some (meaning almost everything else afaik) are overpriced at the very least. overall, whichever you decide to get, you're getting a force multiplier for your handgun that makes it more effective in playing the role once occupied by the SMG.
Sturmgeist
Maybe?
I can see a future for SMGs as defense weapons, and most of them are not internally any more complex than pistols.
The PPS 43 was remarkably simple, as was the Uzi and the MAC series.
The MAC 10 is actually a great example, because it is chambered in .45 ACP, so a subsonic round, and with a ...
  • November 19, 2021
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crusader of southerland
magazine and parts availability and cost are what turn the tide against the smg. you could do the same thing more quickly and effectively (less weight) with any glock or poly80 outfitted with a stock, vfg and 3d printed giggle switch. even the drums for the gloccc are cheaper than standard mags for ...
  • November 19, 2021
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Sturmgeist
There's a reason no military has permanently adopted drums.
  • November 19, 2021
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crusader of southerland
higher cost and lack of reliability, plus they're too cumbersome to carry on the person. high capacity box mags are best (40 rounders for ar15s and 50 sticks for mac 10s & 11s are solid examples)
  • November 19, 2021
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Sturmgeist
Exactly, which is why a Glock with a drum is a bad idea.
They should be able to make a 30 rd stick, and I'm sure that they do.
  • November 19, 2021
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crusader of southerland
they make 33 round sticks that are most often used by sane people in the kits, plus they're cheaper than the drums (like 30 bucks or less a piece)
  • November 19, 2021
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Sturmgeist
Another issue with the polymeric design, tho.
Google "glocknade".
  • November 24, 2021
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Paul Hausser
Hk53: 556 weapon the size of an SMG.
  • November 24, 2021
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crusader of southerland
basically a roller lock mk18
  • November 24, 2021
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Sturmgeist
It's a sawed off H&K33.
  • November 24, 2021
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crusader of southerland
which is basically a roller lock m4
  • November 24, 2021
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Paul Hausser
They're both roller delayed but I see your point.
  • November 24, 2021
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crusader of southerland
m4/mk18 are internal piston guns that rout the gas into the the bolt carrier group. the carbon serves as a dry lube and the platform requires more cleaning, but has 1 less moving part than the roller lock (1 rotating piston on the back of the bolt head as opposed to two rollers). functions in the sa...
  • November 24, 2021
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Paul Hausser
The rollers don't really lock; the bolt has a slope that the rollers travel when chamber pressure reaches a determined point, by then the projectile has left the barrel.

Roller delayed was developed because roller locked bounces on close creating potential for out-of-battery fire.

  • November 25, 2021
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